Conversation started 2004-7-1 15:02:16
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challengebetsy (15:02:31): voice is ok with me
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nickbenn (15:02:52): if they've got some solid prior art to build on, I'd be much less concerned.
irene_anne_lee (15:03:47): Churro sheep and groundwater also have precedents (?)
challengebetsy (15:04:23): David - can you moderate?
chidhkratzer (15:04:52): well, ok, ... but if anyone else would like to take over, then can.
chidhkratzer (15:04:57): Here goes
challengebetsy (15:05:03): Hi, everyone - since Betty seems to be online, we'll give here a minute to get here. We thought we would do voice. Let's use the same protocol: the moderator will be hands free and he/she will invite conversation
pamrdoodle2002 (15:05:33): okay
challengebetsy (15:05:40): i'll be watching for late arrivals -
chidhkratzer (15:05:53): Welcome folks, Please take a look at everyone's abstracts at http://www.challenge.nm.org/sti at the bottom.
challengebetsy (15:06:06): Ok - Let's go = Betty is offline. Thanks David!
chidhkratzer (15:06:29): Does anyone !
ments on team 1's abstract?
pamrdoodle2002 (15:06:38): y
chidhkratzer (15:06:47): go ahead Pam
pamrdoodle2002 (15:07:03): what do you want me to do?
chidhkratzer (15:07:23): make come comments on your team's abstract? You can use voice or type
chidhkratzer (15:07:57): Since I have to yell at my pc so won't talk much.
shirleybirdteach (15:08:21): I can't understand you
challengebetsy (15:08:47): david I forgto you had to yell -
chidhkratzer (15:08:52): Good.
shirleybirdteach (15:09:10): I got none of that
chidhkratzer (15:09:22): Do we see a computational science method in the abstract description?
4): alanrayaisc has joined the conference.
chidhkratzer (15:10:13): OK
jkraloff2001 (15:10:29): There have to be ground water math models out there I think
chidhkratzer (15:10:36): Do you want to model the flow of contaminants?
irene_anne_lee (15:10:40): and some Starlogo models
pamrdoodle2002 (15:10:58): for those that didn't hear...betty has been to the website...and will need to clear that up...yes...we want to modle flow of contaiminants
nickbenn (15:11:33): yes, I have one
pamrdoodle2002 (15:11:35): and yes irene...we are going to try to have starlogo work...may need your help
challengebetsy (15:11:57): Go Nick
pamrdoodle2002 (15:12:00): go ahead nick
_anne_lee (15:12:24): ?
nickbenn (15:12:33): It s
eems to me that you have two different problems here; I suggest you focus on one or the other, for the STI. #1: What are the correlations between the levels of contaminants, and health effects in the community...
jkraloff2001 (15:12:43): Could you get the ground permiabilbity of your area from public mining company data?
nickbenn (15:13:06): #2: How do we think the contaminants spread, through the groundwater, air, etc.?
pamrdoodle2002 (15:13:17): we are really only interested in the contaminants...the health problems follow
alanrayaisc (15:13:26): The soil conservation service and the cooperative extension service both have very detailed soil studies for individual counties.
irene_anne_lee (15:13:47): will you be using the collected data as a starting point and trying to pred!
ict future spread of contamination?
nickbenn (15:13:49): Ok. I suggest the abstract make it clear that you are going to focus on contaminant flow, then.
chidhkratzer (15:13:57): There is always room for project expansion, just don't try to bite off too big of a bite the first time.
pamrdoodle2002 (15:13:58): thanks will do
chidhkratzer (15:14:17): any other comments for team 1?
chidhkratzer (15:14:24): 5
chidhkratzer (15:14:30): 4
chidhkratzer (15:14:36): 3
pamrdoodle2002 (15:14:37): funny
chidhkratzer (15:14:44): 2
chidhkratzer (15:14:50): 1
chidhkratzer (15:14:55): Ok, on to team 2
chidhkratzer (15:15:27): What is the computational science aspect of this project?
challengebetsy (15:16:13): (Kyla - are you seeing this? hearing?)
alanrayaisc (15:16:16): To determine the economic impact of changing over existing flocks from Fine Wool sheep to Churro sheep.
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jkraloff2001 (15:17:47): Are there specific sets of value for the two different types? This sounds like an economic model.
chidhkratzer (15:17:53): Anyone else from team 2 want to comment, by voice or text?
alanrayaisc (15:18:15): Yes, it is basically a compilati!
on of an economic and a population model.
alanrayaisc (15:19:08): chttkjohn: Computer is locking up... can't comment.
chidhkratzer (15:19:18): shucks
irene_anne_lee (15:19:21): So you are adding pure bred churros to your existing stock, right? are the churros mating with the fine wool sheep?
alanrayaisc (15:19:35): I can share our math model with you if you would like to see it as it stands...
alanrayaisc (15:19:49): No, it is showing the replacement of fine wools by the churros.
chidhkratzer (15:20:01): That is ok, as long as you have one to work with, we'll see it next Friday.
irene_anne_lee (15:20:25): okay, so w!
get a new churro you get rid of a fine wool sheep
alanrayaisc (15:20:28): Until the population goes from 100 percent fine wool to 100 percent churro.
alanrayaisc (15:20:32): right.
alanrayaisc (15:20:59): population is set to a maximum of 100. Due to stocking rates, land carrying capacities, etc etc.
irene_anne_lee (15:21:14): So there is time and money but not genetics, correct?
alanrayaisc (15:21:24): Correct.
jkraloff2001 (15:21:48): Does the Churro fleece produce less income therefore requiring more of them to break even? Is there an enviromental i!
alanrayaisc (15:22:16): Actually there is a premium price for churro fleeces, even though the shearing cost is slightly higher.
chidhkratzer (15:22:37): Any other comments for team 2?
jkraloff2001 (15:22:40): By the way - nice picture
alanrayaisc (15:22:44): Also, the churro have a greater reproductive value, so they have more lambs.
chidhkratzer (15:23:00): Yum
jkraloff2001 (15:23:15): How many factors have you included in your model so far?
alanrayaisc (15:23:40): There are about 15 to 20 different equations involved.
24:16): hummm...I'm glad I'm not ya'll...smile
jkraloff2001 (15:24:34): Any ideas how to show graphically so many factors?
irene_anne_lee (15:24:47): Are there five or so factors that you think are more important than the others/
alanrayaisc (15:24:55): But there is one thing I'm not for sure how to do on Excel... It requires and 'IF - THEN statement...
alanrayaisc (15:25:09): The graphs will show three basic things.
alanrayaisc (15:25:31): The numbers of each breed and the income generated.
nickbenn (15:25:54): I can help you with the Excel logic; IF-THEN-ELSE is not sweat.
jkraloff2001 (15:26:06): A real bottom line group!
c (15:26:16): I didn't think it would be... Its pretty cut and dried.
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chidhkratzer (15:26:40): We need to move on to team 3.
chidhkratzer (15:26:51): Ok, on to team 3
chidhkratzer (15:27:02): Comments?
challengebetsy (15:27:16): Love the mentors!
chidhkratzer (15:27:28): ambitious project!
irene_anne_lee (15:27:31): How will you be varying gravity
jkraloff2001 (15:28:08): Dale is a very agressive programmer, but yes this may have to simplified some.
jkraloff2001 (15:28:51): I need to do more research on those articles I remember concerning how they think gravity is changing
jkraloff2001 (15:29:19): Newt is a bit stand offish, but Al is a great guy
jkraloff2001 (15:30:13): On the gravity question I recall that gravity was somehow very different at very large distances.
yes, I have heard about gravitaional lensing... distortion
irene_anne_lee (15:32:36): what is the math model like?
jkraloff2001 (15:32:43): To break a basic assumption of such long standing we are confronted with"dark Matter" supposededly making up > 90% of the universe - yet no experiments confirm it is there.
jkraloff2001 (15:33:30): I have found some several math models of a galaxy. I hope to run them and compare them with a modification of the graavity constant assumption
chidhkratzer (15:34:24): Ok, any other comments for team 3?
irene_anne_lee (15:34:25): There is a Starlogo galaxy model that Pat did last summer. Do you have it?
jkraloff2001 (15:34:40): Sooo we'll have a bunch of small object revolving around a galactic center in the model probably 2d
nickbenn (15:34:54): Suggestions here:
loff2001 (15:35:04): I remember they had one, I plan to check that out Irene
irene_anne_lee (15:35:21): let me know if you cannot find it
jkraloff2001 (15:36:06): Note I am hoping that Nick indeed will give me alot of help.
nickbenn (15:36:17): #1: If you decide your model must be three-dimensional, at leat, begin coding in Java ASAP
nickbenn (15:37:12): #2: Between now and when interim reports are due, be very diligent about the scope - don't let the scope creep, and trim it, if it starts to look infeasible,.
jkraloff2001 (15:37:13): Nick - I find alot of applets on the web. Is there an easy way to look at their code?
nickbenn (15:37:37): Jeff, there are Java decompilers out there; but you can probably also find source code out there too.
n (15:39:49): Hahaha
nickbenn (15:39:52): Good call.
nickbenn (15:40:17): And to all of the teams: don't hesitate to call for help!!!
challengebetsy (15:41:34): Ok. I'm going to close this conference and open a new one for Reflections. I'm archiving (I hope!) this one and sending it to David for posting to StI.
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challengebetsy (15:42:06): Jeff, can't hear you?
jkraloff2001 (15:43:00): I just said guten abent auf English
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challengebetsy (15:43:29): grazie, Jeff. Hasta...
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